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	<title>Comments on: PRINCE2 and Principles</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles</link>
	<description>Your own project management guide</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Project management Certification</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1656</link>
		<dc:creator>Project management Certification</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 10:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1656</guid>
		<description>Hi,
This article has very useful information, it will be helpful for many certification exam aspirants. Actually one of my friends first read this article and asked me to visit this page.
It’s really amazing to read this description of this article, Thanks for your efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
This article has very useful information, it will be helpful for many certification exam aspirants. Actually one of my friends first read this article and asked me to visit this page.<br />
It’s really amazing to read this description of this article, Thanks for your efforts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nico Viergever</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Nico Viergever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 13:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1398</guid>
		<description>Hi Trevor,
I can see your points about the exam.
But what I really want to discuss is the huge difference between PRINCE2 and most other approaches like PMI (IPMA basically follows this) and Agile.
When you discuss what goes wrong in projects (I do that quite often as a trainer), you always hear the same issues:
1. The reason for the project is not clear
2. Roles &#38; responsibilities are not clear
3. It is not clear what the project should deliver

PMI does not go into these issues at all, which I find a damned disgrace!
Most approaches, including PMI, think about project as something only suppliers do. This is a very immature approach and PRINCE2 telles you why. Bevause of the conflicting Business Cases of customer and supplier it is very dangerous to let your supplier manage the project.
So that in short covers issue 1 and 2.
Leaves issue 3 and the product based approach of PRINCE2. Believe it or not but this is also very unique. Obviously this again has a lot to do with supplier driven projects. As a supplier you don't want too many measurable product descriptions...

So my conclusion: PRINCE2 is on a very much higher maturity level than other approaches. This is also why the approach is seen as perscriptive: less mature organisations and individuals can not use the ideas (yet). They will be far more confortable with PMI. With all the damaging consequences for projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Trevor,<br />
I can see your points about the exam.<br />
But what I really want to discuss is the huge difference between PRINCE2 and most other approaches like PMI (IPMA basically follows this) and Agile.<br />
When you discuss what goes wrong in projects (I do that quite often as a trainer), you always hear the same issues:<br />
1. The reason for the project is not clear<br />
2. Roles &amp; responsibilities are not clear<br />
3. It is not clear what the project should deliver</p>
<p>PMI does not go into these issues at all, which I find a damned disgrace!<br />
Most approaches, including PMI, think about project as something only suppliers do. This is a very immature approach and PRINCE2 telles you why. Bevause of the conflicting Business Cases of customer and supplier it is very dangerous to let your supplier manage the project.<br />
So that in short covers issue 1 and 2.<br />
Leaves issue 3 and the product based approach of PRINCE2. Believe it or not but this is also very unique. Obviously this again has a lot to do with supplier driven projects. As a supplier you don&#8217;t want too many measurable product descriptions&#8230;</p>
<p>So my conclusion: PRINCE2 is on a very much higher maturity level than other approaches. This is also why the approach is seen as perscriptive: less mature organisations and individuals can not use the ideas (yet). They will be far more confortable with PMI. With all the damaging consequences for projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1354</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1354</guid>
		<description>Hi Trevor

I'm currently mapping PRINCE2 2009 to IPMA's competency baseline (often refered to a ICB) - this will show what else competent project managers need to know and do in addition to understanding how to use a method such as PRINCE2.

As a corporate member of the Association of Project Management (APM) I'm perhaps biased, but APM's alignment to IPMA (and hence the ICB), emphasis on continuing professional development and the move toward Chartered status is a massive step in the professionalisation of project management.

Regards
Andy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Trevor</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently mapping PRINCE2 2009 to IPMA&#8217;s competency baseline (often refered to a ICB) - this will show what else competent project managers need to know and do in addition to understanding how to use a method such as PRINCE2.</p>
<p>As a corporate member of the Association of Project Management (APM) I&#8217;m perhaps biased, but APM&#8217;s alignment to IPMA (and hence the ICB), emphasis on continuing professional development and the move toward Chartered status is a massive step in the professionalisation of project management.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Andy</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1353</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1353</guid>
		<description>Hi Andy,

Thanks for commenting!

I suppose I'm trying to overload what the PRINCE2 exam is actually testing.  This is unfair of me on PRINCE2, really.

I think the main part of my worry is that there is a lack of a widely accepted (in the UK) measurement of project management competence, rather than the measurement of methodology knowledge.  But that's isn't PRINCE2's problem, but that of the project management profession in the UK.

Perhaps we should all go out and evangelise for the PMI's PMP qualification...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andy,</p>
<p>Thanks for commenting!</p>
<p>I suppose I&#8217;m trying to overload what the PRINCE2 exam is actually testing.  This is unfair of me on PRINCE2, really.</p>
<p>I think the main part of my worry is that there is a lack of a widely accepted (in the UK) measurement of project management competence, rather than the measurement of methodology knowledge.  But that&#8217;s isn&#8217;t PRINCE2&#8217;s problem, but that of the project management profession in the UK.</p>
<p>Perhaps we should all go out and evangelise for the PMI&#8217;s PMP qualification&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>Hi Trevor

Great post.  There is always a dilema between testing the undertsanding of a method and testing the competence of a project manager.

As a method PRINCE2 does not cover all of project management as there are aspects that are difficult to codify (e.g. leadership), are culturally oriented (e.g. negotiation) or are context specific and already documented various BOKs(e.g. estimation techniques).  Therefore some of the aspects that you cite are beyond the scope of PRINCE2 and therefore not included in the exam syllabus.

That said, PRINCE2 2009 is less prescriptive and now includes a set of principles upon which PMs can use their judgment as to how to apply the method.  In particular this emphasises the need to scale the method and use approach specific techniques - such as agile, RUP, Six Sigma etc.

PRINCE2 2009 is being launched on 16th June, and can be purchased from various onlinbe book shops.

Best regards
Andy
PRINCE2 2009 Lead Author</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Trevor</p>
<p>Great post.  There is always a dilema between testing the undertsanding of a method and testing the competence of a project manager.</p>
<p>As a method PRINCE2 does not cover all of project management as there are aspects that are difficult to codify (e.g. leadership), are culturally oriented (e.g. negotiation) or are context specific and already documented various BOKs(e.g. estimation techniques).  Therefore some of the aspects that you cite are beyond the scope of PRINCE2 and therefore not included in the exam syllabus.</p>
<p>That said, PRINCE2 2009 is less prescriptive and now includes a set of principles upon which PMs can use their judgment as to how to apply the method.  In particular this emphasises the need to scale the method and use approach specific techniques - such as agile, RUP, Six Sigma etc.</p>
<p>PRINCE2 2009 is being launched on 16th June, and can be purchased from various onlinbe book shops.</p>
<p>Best regards<br />
Andy<br />
PRINCE2 2009 Lead Author</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1222</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1222</guid>
		<description>Hi Vincent,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the PRINCE2 exam is easy.  I just think it is concentrating too much on testing the purely mechanistic parts of the methodology.  It wasn't taught to me in that way, and I don't use it in that way.

(Incidentally, the training course I went on was aimed very much at people who already had experience as a project manager - but as it isn't part of the pre-requisites, it is often ignored.)

As for PRINCE2 vs PMBoK - well, yes, PRINCE2 &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; more prescriptive.  But that's because it is describing a methodology, which PMBoK isn't.  They are two different things.  It's like saying a repair manual for a 1997 Vauxhall Vectra is more prescriptive than a textbook on the internal combustion engine - it's true, but missing the aim of each one.

Of course, my argument is that while the UK market still sees PRINCE2 as the de facto requirement for a project manager, we need to be happy to add more of the theory side, the principles of project management, into the qualification, and move away from the more mechanistic, and yes, more prescriptive side.  Sometimes we just have to trust a project manager's experience, judgement and common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vincent,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m not saying the PRINCE2 exam is easy.  I just think it is concentrating too much on testing the purely mechanistic parts of the methodology.  It wasn&#8217;t taught to me in that way, and I don&#8217;t use it in that way.</p>
<p>(Incidentally, the training course I went on was aimed very much at people who already had experience as a project manager - but as it isn&#8217;t part of the pre-requisites, it is often ignored.)</p>
<p>As for PRINCE2 vs PMBoK - well, yes, PRINCE2 <b>is</b> more prescriptive.  But that&#8217;s because it is describing a methodology, which PMBoK isn&#8217;t.  They are two different things.  It&#8217;s like saying a repair manual for a 1997 Vauxhall Vectra is more prescriptive than a textbook on the internal combustion engine - it&#8217;s true, but missing the aim of each one.</p>
<p>Of course, my argument is that while the UK market still sees PRINCE2 as the de facto requirement for a project manager, we need to be happy to add more of the theory side, the principles of project management, into the qualification, and move away from the more mechanistic, and yes, more prescriptive side.  Sometimes we just have to trust a project manager&#8217;s experience, judgement and common sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent Birlouez</title>
		<link>http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/project-management/prince2-and-principles#comment-1185</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent Birlouez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectmanagementguide.org/?p=82#comment-1185</guid>
		<description>PMP is the same. It's multiple choice. But it's hard. You won't pass the PMP certification if you don't have few years of PM experience and formal training: it's a pre-req.

For credential maintenance you don't take a new exam but have to collect point that can be gained through training, practice, publication, lectures...

Maintaining your PMP credential is not trivial. You need to think project management every day!

I am currently preparing a Prince2 vs PMP article. It seems to me that Prince2 is too prescriptive if you compare to PMBok.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PMP is the same. It&#8217;s multiple choice. But it&#8217;s hard. You won&#8217;t pass the PMP certification if you don&#8217;t have few years of PM experience and formal training: it&#8217;s a pre-req.</p>
<p>For credential maintenance you don&#8217;t take a new exam but have to collect point that can be gained through training, practice, publication, lectures&#8230;</p>
<p>Maintaining your PMP credential is not trivial. You need to think project management every day!</p>
<p>I am currently preparing a Prince2 vs PMP article. It seems to me that Prince2 is too prescriptive if you compare to PMBok.</p>
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